Facing South

"Death panel" architect a pro-life Republican from Georgia?

johnny_isakson.JPGLast week former Republican vice presidential candidate and Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin posted a statement to her Facebook page in which she warned that President Obama's health care reform plan would result in a so-called "death panel" with the power to kill elderly people and those with disabilities:

The America I know and love is not one in which my parents or my baby with Down Syndrome will have to stand in front of Obama's "death panel" so his bureaucrats can decide, based on a subjective judgment of their "level of productivity in society," whether they are worthy of health care. Such a system is downright evil.

U.S. Rep. Virginia Foxx (R-N.C.) also recently accused the Democrats' health care reform plan of putting seniors "to death."

But there is nothing resembling the alleged "death panel" in the health care reform plan. A spokesperson for Palin told ABC News that the former governor was referring to a section promoting advance care planning that appears on page 425 of the House Democrats' bill [pdf]. Advance care planning includes living wills and durable powers of attorney that allow individuals to make clear their wishes for end-of-life care, whatever they may be.

And as it turns out, the cause of advance planning has been championed especially strongly by a pro-life Republican -- U.S. Sen. Johnny Isakson of Georgia.

Isakson (photo above) is a member of Senate Health committee that played a key role in shaping the health care reform legislation. He successfully offered an amendment in committee that allows funds for a government-funded program that provides in-home services to people with disabilities to be used for advance care planning, according to the national Hospice and Palliative Care Organization.

Isakson has been promoting advance care planning for years. In 2007, for example, he co-sponsored two bills to encourage such planning -- the Medicare End-of-Life Care Planning Act and the Advance Planning and Compassionate Care Act.

In 2005, Isakson joined with state lawmakers to publicly sign a personal "Directive for Final Health Care" to encourage Georgians to discuss their personal wishes for end-of-life care. He cited the controversial case of Terry Schiavo -- a Florida woman who lived for several years in a persistent vegetative state before her husband had her disconnected from a feeding tube -- to illustrate the importance of advance planning.

"I believe it is every person's right and responsibility to make sure their loved ones are prepared to make decisions on their behalf by discussing and documenting their wishes," Isakson said at the time. "It is my sincere hope that all Georgians will join me in following the lead of the Georgia General Assembly's Resolution and make their final wishes known."

Isakson is a pro-life politician who opposes abortion as well as stem cell research entailing the destruction of human embryos.

So far Isakson has remained silent publicly on the "death panel" brouhaha. Facing South called his press office for comment today but no one was available.

Meanwhile, another prominent Georgia Republican has rushed to Palin's defense: Former U.S. House Speaker Newt Gingrich told ABC's "This Week" that people are being asked "to trust turning power over to the government when there are clearly people in America who believe in establishing euthanasia, including selective standards."

But at least one other Georgia politician has tried to distance himself from Palin, with Congressman Jack Kingston (R-Ga.) telling Bill Maher that her "death panel" allegation was "a scare tactic."

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re: "Death panel" architect a pro-life Republican from Georgia?

For years political spin and guilding-the-lily were standard political rhetoric. Gingrich was the first to openly advocate lying as a perferred Republican tactic. It is now so pervasive that only the willfully ignorant believe anything the GOP says. Especially when it is detrimental to their own personal interests. That has got to be the best trick ever and you can see why the GOP panders to their base so assiduously. The GOP base is primarily composed of redneck low information white trash.

re: "Death panel" architect a pro-life Republican from Georgia?

The irony is how intent those that have not are willing to vote against their better interests just to be against anything that the current administration is trying to achieve. Granted, I'm in my mid 30s and don't exactly remember how difficult the political landscape was in the Clinton administration, but this is ridiculous. Case in point, the guy in MO that went to the town hall, got into a fight with the unions (that have health insurance) and got stomped, sent to the hospital and now is accepting donations for his medical bills because he's got no insurance and got laid off. The exact person that would benefit from reform, but he'd rather be anti anything Democratic.

re: "Death panel" architect a pro-life Republican from Georgia?

Southern politicians (most of them) have been disgusting from about 1825 on. From what I see of the GOP and the Blue Dogs, it is not getting better-- only worse. As a southerner myself, I have to ask- who is educating these people who become politicians? and why do we have such a high population of dummies voting for them year after year after year, when their interests are not being served by them?

re: "Death panel" architect a pro-life Republican from Georgia?

@ Afgail

I hear what you're saying however the rhetoric and lies are getting closer and closer to propaganda. This can be very dangerous ground, because ther us a large section of our society that takes what they hear in the media at face value. Very few people care to educate themselves, and usually just trust the mouths of whichever political party they follow. I am worried that eventually all the fear tactics will lead to violence.

re: "Death panel" architect a pro-life Republican from Georgia?

Amazing that as a former Professor, Newt can't understand the written word and completely mischaracterizes the entire process.
Didn't he sponsor an amendment once about being able to allow for directives for your sick wife in the hospital while cheating on her with someone else?

Please, this man is a walking lie machine

re: "Death panel" architect a pro-life Republican from Georgia?

"The GOP base is primarily composed of redneck low information white trash."... according to an ignorant post.

If that's true, tell me why Republicans as a group are:
* More educated
* More wealthy
* Have higher IQ's
* Happier
* more productive

than Democrats, as a group?

You dems as a group are pretty stupid and unable to think critically for yourselves. You tend to follow the opinions of entertainers rather than think through real issues for yourselves.

With no-bama in the White House, your radical agenda is exposed and is being rejected by the American people. Read the polls! (if you can read, that is)

re: "Death panel" architect a pro-life Republican from Georgia?

How could anyone, other than with willful ignorance, translate that section (1233) of the committee's bill into a 'death panel'? It almost borders on criminal - like hollering 'fire' in a theater. It's just plain disgusting, deceitful, and willfully dishonest.

re: "Death panel" architect a pro-life Republican from Georgia?

If this Georgian sponsored similar legislation, why isn't he outfront condemning the repub lies about "death panels?" Oh, yeah,forgot,he's a repub. Why do anything ethical?

re: "Death panel" architect a pro-life Republican from Georgia?

can't you move up here?

re: "Death panel" architect a pro-life Republican from Georgia?

Just discovered this article, website and comments thru Huffpo, and must say I am pleased and astounded to hear such reasoned discussion (too much MSM "news" and commentary).
Agree with all comments, will return again.

re: "Death panel" architect a pro-life Republican from Georgia?

I wish he would "move up there". It would raise the average IQ of both regions.

You'll have to think about that one for a while, you math challenged democrat dummies!

re: "Death panel" architect a pro-life Republican from Georgia?

lol -- actually democrats are more likely to be college educated currently.

You just made all of that up to fit your POV

re: "Death panel" architect a pro-life Republican from Georgia?

I have a very important observation. It has not been addressed that I have seen. Why the hell have the MSM not come out and say that this euthanasia if nonsense? I mean the MSM News. NBC Nightly News. Brian Williams. CBS, ABC CNN? (Notice I left out Cluster Faux) Why have they not said explicitly that it is not true that there are no "Death Panels?" Sure they report that Sarah Palin said this on her Face Book page or that somebody else said it but they do not say "This is not true folks. This will not happen." They don't even have to say it is a scare tactic. Or that it is insane. All they have to say it is not true. Period. Of course they could mention that Obama is not a Nazi as well but that may be too much to ask. Please Old people watch the network news. They don't watch MSNBC. At least the ones who are being scared by this bull shit.

re: "Death panel" architect a pro-life Republican from Georgia?

I just heard the very first Republican congressman I've ever heard of denounce the scare tactics of, in this case, Glenn Beck. He's from South Carolina and will probably be maligned and vilified by HIS people, but he instructed them to turn off their TVs when Beck came on! Boy, he was booed and jeered like he was from Maine or somewhere! His own people! I was very proud of him because it took a lot of guts to do what he did.

re: "Death panel" architect a pro-life Republican from Georgia?

Jim et al,

I suppose you are quoting empirical data culled from some paper conveniently placed in your outhouse. There are really conscientious Repubs but an alarming majority, like you have the IQ of tap water. Who feeds you these info about death panels, euthanasia, the end of private insurance? Who feeds you this info about ending Medicare? If you and your ilk are so opposed to government programs, please have anyone in your circle of lony friends remove yourselves from Medicare. It is wholly government run and efficiently. How many cases have you heard being turned down by Medicare? How many by your beloved private insurance? If you are happy with your proivate insurance, stick to it. But don't go about feeding the rational public stupid info about a beter alternative.
Pathetic.

re: "Death panel" architect a pro-life Republican from Georgia?

I have been a registered Republican for 33 years, but no longer! The outright lying and hypocracy prevalent within the party and it's elected leaders approaches outright treason.

These policies and actions are part of a larger movement to bring about a so-called Obama Wagerloo, no matter the cost to effective government or positive change intended by our President.

Constructive debate is always encouraged, however the Obama-must-fail-no-matter-the-cost attitude of the majority of Republican elected officials is not acceptable. Not by a long shot.

I am no longer proud to be associated with the Republican Party, it's leaders and members.

re: "Death panel" architect a pro-life Republican from Georgia?

I love the one below that states republicans are:
more educated - they're not, they just say that (bush proves it)
more wealthy - they steal
higher IQ's - they cheat
happier - it's the drugs, just ask Rush
more productive - that slave mentality
HA!

re: "Death panel" architect a pro-life Republican from Georgia?

Nothing like the threat of death for modern political discourse from the ilk of Newt Gingrich. He is a disgrace.

re: "Death panel" architect a pro-life Republican from Georgia?

Educated suburbanites voted Democrat last time. So your claim that republicans are more educated is false.

re: "Death panel" architect a pro-life Republican from Georgia?

Your post exemplifies exactly what Afgail means.

re: "Death panel" architect a pro-life Republican from Georgia?

He has spoken out. He recently did an interview with Ezra Klein where he says he has no idea where Palin got this "death panel" notion.

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/ezra-klein/2009/08/is_the_government_going_to_eut.html

re: "Death panel" architect a pro-life Republican from Georgia?

So this is the person that put killing Trig into Sarah's head? Sarah you really ought to seek medical care for your childs sake.

re: "Death panel" architect a pro-life Republican from Georgia?

"why [are] Republicans as a group ...:
* More educated
* More wealthy
* Have higher IQ's
* Happier
* more productive
than Democrats, as a group?"

I would like to see your data, Jim, if you have any.

I feel a "more wealthy" individual is likely to be (or become) Republican, as a strategy to retain that wealth for him/herself. Everything else (education, etc.) comes easier for the wealthy.

The wealthy are also, as a group, likely to have mastered the skills of manipulating others (that's one major way to accumulate wealth, after all). Republican movers and shakers use their manipulative prowess to scare "useful idiot" masses into voting against their (the masses') self interest.

They are masterful at running campaigns, which look a lot like the other things they ran to get rich.

Unfortunately, they are lousy at running a country.

re: "Death panel" architect a pro-life Republican from Georgia?

Palin ran her own "death panel" in Alaska:

July 15/2009

Lisa Demer of the Anchorage Daily News has broken a story that adds another scandal to the growing list of scandals that have plagued this administration, and shines the light on Alaska’s very own health care crisis.

Demer’s story centers on the horrendous condition of the Alaska’s state programs that are designed to help its most vulnerable citizens, the elderly and disabled.

The situation is so bad the federal government has forbidden the state to sign up new people until the state makes necessary improvements.

The moratorium is expected to last four or five months. State officials estimate about 1,000 Alaskans will be affected.

A particularly alarming finding concerns deaths of adults in the programs. In one 2 1/2 year stretch, 227 adults already getting services died while waiting for a nurse to reassess their needs.

Another 27 died waiting for their initial assessment, to see if they qualified for help.

No other state in the nation is under such a moratorium, according to a spokeswoman for the federal Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services.

re: "Death panel" architect a pro-life Republican from Georgia?

In your dreams. But would like to see your links to these statements. If you told me that the polls said Republicans were
1. more arrogant
2. more misinformed
3. angrier - even when in power
4. more entitled
5. more on welfare

than Democrats. That I could believe.

re: "Death panel" architect a pro-life Republican from Georgia?

It is the dimwits like Palin that give you guys a bad name.
Just twisting a clause that is basically counseling people
for their wishes for a living will. It is taking something
that is already being done and just counseling people for their
desires. You forgot one more quality, their also great at
distorting the truth ie lying!

re: "Death panel" architect a pro-life Republican from Georgia?

The reason the local news stations don't say there is no "Death Panel" is because the big Insurance companies pay their bills.

re: "Death panel" architect a pro-life Republican from Georgia?

Here, here. Right on the money.

re: "Death panel" architect a pro-life Republican from Georgia?

That would be "wealthier" .....

re: "Death panel" architect a pro-life Republican from Georgia?

Iconico:

"IQ of tapwater?". I didn't know tapwater was rated at 139.
A quick web search will show independent studies back up what I said.

I just got on this site to aggravate you dolts. You guys are a bunch of losers.... and lose you will in 2010 and 2012. Can you say "Jimmy Carter"?

re: "Death panel" architect a pro-life Republican from Georgia?

Jim- Happy Dem girl here- just wanted to "school" you a bit- the correct usage is "wealthier" NOT "more wealthy"... and yes, it does matter, especially when you were so pompous about it.

re: "Death panel" architect a pro-life Republican from Georgia?

Jim, I also would like to see some data to support your claims about Republicans being more productive, etc.

It's just because all of the republicans I know drive rusty old cars and are missing a few teeth.

re: "Death panel" architect a pro-life Republican from Georgia?

In many ways it's a tragedy that the North won the Civil War. We would have all these goons out of OUR Republic, and, more importantly, we would not have to be "footing the bill" for their idiocy and inability to pay their own way (I say this as a Californian who puts $1.75 into the Fed pot, only to receive a buck back. I believe, from what I have read, that the reverse is true for the south....kindly correct me if you know otherwise.

PS: (I had already submitted this). I have a great number of frieds from the south.....most have escaped. I remember a book a friend from AK lent me once...."Southern Ladies and Gentlemen" was the title, though I cannot remember the author's name. At the time she wrote this she was living in Seattle (Hawaii & Alaska had not been admitted to the Union at that point). She said something in the Preface which I have NEVER forgotten: "Put a fence around the South and you will have the biggest Mad-House in the world". So many of our country's best writers came from the south and obviously they had a GREAT deal of material to draw upon!

re: "Death panel" architect a pro-life Republican from Georgia?

At the heart of the conservative movement is greed and selfishness.

re: "Death panel" architect a pro-life Republican from Georgia?

If i have a product or company, and people make blatantly false claims about my product or service to destroy my company. I can sue them. think the supports of his bill should take these people to court for their lies.

re: "Death panel" architect a pro-life Republican from Georgia?

Supporting end of life preference has nothing to do with who get care and who does not get care. It is if you want to resuscitated and be kept on life support. This proposal came up because of the fight over Terry Schivo who was brain dead and didn't have end of life preferences. I love the way the Dems use anything to hang their hats on to help their case. I am not sure that euthanasia in the proposed bill but I do know that there is not doubt that with National Health Care, AND THAT IS WHERE THIS IS HEADED, has to ration health care to keep costs down or it can't survive. That is what is down in Canada and England read the statistics of heart attacks and cancer survivors. You will find that the percentage is extremely higher that in the US.
Don't kid yourself you want free health care and to get that the only way is to ration it and we will still keep going deeper into deficit than we are now. It is pretty bad when China is concerned about our economy and if we can stain our debt to them, you do know that they are funding our large and getting larger deficit spending that Obama is driving us into to. I don't disagree that something needs to be done but this is not the way. Contrary to what the Demo are telling us the Rebs are offering other alternatives, to name just a few capping malpractice claims and stopping fraudulent or over charging by hospitals and providers. Capping malpractice suits would save billions as doctors would not take necessary test to cover their "butts" so to speak and their liability insurance would drop significantly.
Obama keeps telling us that there are 49 million people without health care insurance. That figure is so misleading as it includes illegals and people that make enough money but choose not to buy insurance. The real number is around 12 or 13 million, do you want to pay for health care for people that came here illegally, I don't. I am not against migrants my father and grand parents were but the difference is that came here legally and work hard to learn our language and become proud US citizens.
DEE

re: "Death panel" architect a pro-life Republican from Georgia?

Come on folks. Why don't we each read the proposed section (1233) of the committee's bill? Then we can make up our own minds if we think it's good for our country or not.

re: "Death panel" architect a pro-life Republican from Georgia?

The GOP as a group is much smaller than the Democratic party as a group. That means the GOP averages are much more likely to be skewed by a few extreme numbers, such as a small number of wealthy people at the top. Also, it is likely that the GOP has more members at each end of the spectrum rather than in the middle or evenly spread. Speaking as one who has worked with statistics, you have good questions and they have basic answers. You might check it out, it's a very interesting field of study.

re: "Death panel" architect a pro-life Republican from Georgia?

Aren't we proud of Mr. Isiacson in Georgia.

re: "Death panel" architect a pro-life Republican from Georgia?

Hey Jim, maybe you're still living in the 80s when Republicans were living high-on-the-hog but their base of support has been dwindling for years.

Sadly, the GOP is becoming the party of (predominantly) white, male, under-educated, poor fundamentalist Southerners.

The last few elections have shown this remarkable change - more college educated people are identifying themselves as Democrats (or more likely, Independents since both parties are losing the trust of smart people), the former "minorities" (read: women, blacks, Latinos) are voting Democrat in droves. I work with a number of young people (the lifeblood of future campaigns) and not one of them identifies him or herself as a Republican.

There's actually a good bit of statistical analysis that with current population trends there may not be a GOP in 20-30 years.

re: "Death panel" architect a pro-life Republican from Georgia?

why dont you check out the voting block from the last election....pay special attention to who voted for mccain and who voted for obama . when you go county by county across the country ...you are not going to like what you see .

the fact is the uneducated flock to the gop and they know it , this is the only reason then can manipulate the base so easily .

re: "Death panel" architect a pro-life Republican from Georgia?

Poor Johnny! It is so sad that such a statement was made by you. I remember when Gov. Roy Barnes appointed you to chair the State Education Board because of all the in-fighting that was taking place over at the Capital I thought you was different, but I was very wrong! Too bad he didn't leave you up in Cobb County! I doubt you would have ever made it to the Senate if he had. I whatched you and Saxby make a fool of yourselves over the Conformation of Supreme Justice Sotomayor! A 61 to 38 Vote by the Full Senate really made you two look like a couple of bumbling idiots! Too bad, she made it with ease any way!

re: "Death panel" architect a pro-life Republican from Georgia?

Southern politicians (most of them) have been disgusting from about 1825 on. From what I see of the GOP and the Blue Dogs, it is not getting better-- only worse. As a southerner myself, I have to ask- who is educating these people who become politicians? and why do we have such a high population of dummies voting for them year after year after year, when their interests are not being served by them?

re: "Death panel" architect a pro-life Republican from Georgia?

Okay explain why:

*Scientists are more like to be liberal,
*College professors are more likely to be liberal,
*Good journalists are liberal.

It seems to me that those with the higher IQ's are liberal. The educated are more liberal. Republicans make more money, but who do you think Bernie Madoff voted for? And they are likely to be happier because ignorance is bliss.

As far as being smarter and more educated...no. I'll take my Constitutional Law Professor from an elite university over your communications major from a no-namer any day.
(And since you obviously have trouble understanding things I'll explain that those were references to President Obama's and Sarah Palin's education.

re: "Death panel" architect a pro-life Republican from Georgia?

So you watch Faux news and listen to Hannity and Limbaugh. You have no idea how the healthcare business operates. Drs. can charge $25,000 for an office visit, but they'll still get the contracted rate of maybe $75 and $30 of that is your copay. You are ill informed, and that means you are a menace to those working for true reform.

re: "Death panel" architect a pro-life Republican from Georgia?

I guess that makes you an elitist. Congraulations

re: "Death panel" architect a pro-life Republican from Georgia?

After reading these posts, one very sad thing jumps out at me and that is the fact that the GOP is preying on the illiterates in the south. But then again, so many are lazy, willing victims. Georgia is my home state and I have been sickened for years at the pride many take in not being educated. It is a reverse snobbism that leads them to talk radio celebrities and television hate programs. They don't have to read or research. Many of these people thrive on gossip within their own lives and now they have a common bond of political gossip that is on a grand and seemingly important scale. They feel more important and they have not had to do the work. As a white lady of a certain age and who is expected to be racist by many, I get so tired and disgusted when other whites come up to me and whisper racist comments about President Obama and his plans. I put up with that growing up in the south and many times could not speak up when racist "n" word jokes were told to me, acting thusly, partly for my own safety. Now, I am older and I stand up. It hasn't made me poopular with some. But so it goes. Make no mistake, these people are not listening to reason because he is black. They have been taught this all their lives. The rich because they were sure that they were better than all of us. The poor and/or uneducated because they had to have someone held down lower than they felt.

If these latest issues come to violence and bloodshed we can start the blame with Limbaugh, then McCain who did not care how he became president to the extent that he would run with the likes of Palin, Beck, and all the local and regional "news" celebrity wannabees...to name only a few. We all need to turn off 24 hour news. It isn't new. I am a former print and tv journalist and we have a sad state of affairs as far as getting honest information. Please learn the difference in fact and opinion and propaganda, regardless of your party leanings. These are my opinions based on being around for quite a few decades. However, were I to present them as a news piece, there would be more research and less opinion. A return to calm and civility would be a good start. Passion must be there, but it has to be rational at some point.

re: "Death panel" architect a pro-life Republican from Georgia?

Why are there so many idiots that continue to vote for these yahoos? Lack of education?Corporate chokehold on media? Most people sit at home and watch the 6 o'clock news and that's that..Now if those same people would then turn to Al Jazeera or Democracy Now! Following said 6 o'clock news maybe things would be better?

re: "Death panel" architect a pro-life Republican from Georgia?

Take a look at the numbers in congress, not the polls. Both houses of congress are controlled by the Dems. I don't see any proof listed of your claims, show some proof before you just state something as fact.

A fact is that the repub party is made up of about 23% of the voting population. By 2012, I think you will be almost non-existing.

re: "Death panel" architect a pro-life Republican from Georgia?

"A South politician preaches to the poor white man,
"You got more than the blacks, don't complain.
You're better than them, you been born with white skin," they explain.
And the Negro's name
Is used it is plain
For the politician's gain
As he rises to fame
And the poor white remains
On the caboose of the train
But it ain't him to blame
He's only a pawn in their game."

Bob Dylan 1964 - Only a Pawn in Their Game

re: "Death panel" architect a pro-life Republican from Georgia?

I am so sick of hearing about Sarah Palin's Down Syndrome baby. I am a liberal who is also a devout Christian. If either of my kids had tested as down's babies in utero, I would have kept them and loved them all the same. She is so using that baby to burnish her conservative bona fides. 9 out of ten mothers who find out they are carrying a down's fetus choose to have abortions. does anyone seriously believe none of those aborting are conservative? I would bet good money that lots of publicly pious rightwingers have privately "taken care of" an "imperfect" pregnancy. And I defend their right to do so. But I decry their attempt to monopolize the moral high ground here. If anyone is paying attention, prenatal testing has resulted indirectly in a marked decline in the overall incidence of Down's births. That would be an issue I could respect Palin for piping up about. But to link medical wills to her baby in this distorted way is just repugnant.

re: "Death panel" architect a pro-life Republican from Georgia?

Bunch of name-callers on here. No substantive argument on facts, at least not about the article - just an ongoing argument over which group of party myrmidons has the lowest IQ. Don't mind if I join in!

Republicans, get this through your heads: Your party is not about Freedom or smaller government. If you don't believe me, I remind you that the Republican Party traces its roots back to that great bastion of states' rights and defender of the Constitution (sic), Abraham Lincoln. While I can't fault everything Lincoln did (he did the right thing by ending slavery, even if he only did it to win popular support for his war to subjugate the states and remove their right of secession), the fact is that Lincoln was a statist extraordinaire who succeeded in destroying the Constitutional federation of republics we were intended to have, and replaced it with a Supreme Central Government. The modern Republican Party has gotten so bad that Bush and Cheney didn't even bother to try to hide the fact of their Fascist and Imperialist war-mongering ways.

Democrats: Your party is simply the flip side of the Republican coin. The "rednecks" as you call them are absolutely right about your party's leaders being a bunch of Communists. Socialized medicine may be the popular poster child of the 21st century, but it is still totalitarian government butting in where it has no business. No matter how much it benefits you, or anybody else, stealing from others to pay for your healthcare is wrong, whether you do it personally or have your pal Barry Obama and company do it for you; a leech is a leech is a parasite, no matter how noble-minded.

The good news for Democrats is, the Republicans way back when gave them the Supreme Central Government they wanted; the bad news for them is, it's still not (yet) powerful enough to run every last aspect of our lives, so they still have work to do.

The good news for Republicans is, the Democrat leadership can be counted on to continue their Imperialist foreign policy and send American youth to go die for the Corporate Interests in far-off places, in spite of all their populist anti-war rhetoric.

Face it folks, no matter which party you support you are propping up a bunch of lying scumbags who only promise what YOU want when they want your vote to get elected, then to hell with you and they know better than all us unwashed heathens - and will give us what's best for us, whether we like it or not!

re: "Death panel" architect a pro-life Republican from Georgia?

wake up people, the Democrats are trying to destroy the very freedom that made this country great...low life politicians have NOT made this country the greatest in human history. It is the people that actually work and create jobs. Politicians have never run a government program honestly or responsibly and NEVER will! History proves this.

And You die hard Democrats, why do you want to join a group that kills innocent babies for selfish interest or convenience? You are worse than Al Quaeda who kills innocent people out of perverted religious convictions not selfish convenience.

re: "Death panel" architect a pro-life Republican from Georgia?

And only 6% of scientists are Republicons.

re: "Death panel" architect a pro-life Republican from Georgia?

The same political party spreading fear about "government bureaucrats getting between you and your doctor" is the same party that...

1) Used the power of government to interfere in the medical decisions of Terry Schiavo.

2) want to use government bureaucrats to ban the medical procedure called abortion, restricting options between patients and their doctor.

Considering the fact that these people advocate a system that creates medical patients without access to personal physicians, the opposition arguments are disingenuous and offensive, at best.

Corporate insurance companies call their death panels "shareholders".

re: "Death panel" architect a pro-life Republican from Georgia?

The constant drumbeat about rationing and not being able to choose your own doctor is just ludicrous. Limiting your choice of doctors is rampant with private health insurance. I have not had an employer sponsored program since 1988 that didn't hand me a list of plan doctors. Often, I had to change doctors when I changed jobs and got a new insurance carrier. As for rationing, the insurance companies have been deciding which medications, treatments, surgeries, etc... you could have for years. I have had some carriers where it became almost a 2nd job to call and fight with them to get them to pay the claims my providers filed. The less care they pay for, the more money they get to keep. Their game is always the same-outright denial of care when they can, delay as long as possible when they can't, and raise your premiums every year. They make their money by denying you care. Profit is not the most important thing to a health insurance company-it is the ONLY thing.

re: "Death panel" architect a pro-life Republican from Georgia?

Yes. Beautifully, succinctly put.

Not all conservatives are greedy and selfish, but most greedy, selfish people are conservatives. That's why they're always so mad, even when they're totally in power. Their whole lives revolve around making sure no one "takes what they got."

re: "Death panel" architect a pro-life Republican from Georgia?

Rush Limbaugh, Sarah Palin and the Republican leaders aren't interested in an honest debate. Instead of offering any solutions or even engaging in a civil debate over the future of health care, the Party of No is spreading lies in an effort to defeat reform.

Make no mistake, they are not interested in an honest discussion. That is why they are resorting to extreme scare tactics.

For example, Sarah Palin claimed the legislation will create government "death panels". This claim of government sponsored euthanasia has been repeated over and over again in anonymous email chains.

The truth? The amendment Palin is referring to was introduced by Georgia's own Republican Senator Johnny Isakson and it actually allows individuals to control their own health care decisions by covering optional advance care planning. Not a bad amendment, Johnny.

re: "Death panel" architect a pro-life Republican from Georgia?

Palin is either a total idiot or a terribly cynical or both. Federal law and some state laws have long required hospitals to advice patients of their personal right to self determination, including their right to choose to implement advance directives, living wills, durable powers of attorney for health care so that their individuals wishes can be fulfilled in the event that one loses the capacity make decisions for oneself. This is not a Democratic or Republican idea. It is not central to health insurance reform or health care reform. Advance directives are a longstanding method to make sure that you control your destiny. That Palin would engage in this idiotic and cynical distortion demonstrates how unfit she is to be a public leader. If she was a man or 50 pounds heavier, McCain wouldn't have selected her and the mainstream media would not indulge her. So who's more idiot and cynical? Palin or the media. A sad state of affairs.

re: "Death panel" architect a pro-life Republican from Georgia?

Watching with grisly fascination the current "debate" on healthcare from the other side of the pond, I am amazed by the disregard for facts among the oponents of reform. It should be plain to see that in a country which spends 50% more per head on healthcare than any other industrialised country, yet has a rate of infant mortality and an average life expectance that places it squarely in the third world, there is something very wrong.
Of course there are variations in the quality of healthcare between other developed countries but these are broadly in line with what democratically elected governments wish to spend on healthcare. The only true disconnect is in the USA. Where on earth is all the money going?

re: "Death panel" architect a pro-life Republican from Georgia?

In reply to:

"If that's true, tell me why Republicans as a group are"

I will tell you Jim:

* More educated ---> They are not, this assumption is based on the same sentiment as allmost every Republican thought; arrogance
* More wealthy ---> Because they are greedy and think that they are better than people with less money, and don't feel obligated to pay taxes like everyone else.
* Have higher IQ's ---> Give me an aexample of a great mind who's a republican, I honestly can't think about anayone.
* Happier ---> What, happy like O'Reily or Limbaugh? lol.
* more productive ---> They are so blinded by their own believes they don't seem to mind that they are being exploited by their republican employer.

"You dems as a group are pretty stupid and unable to think critically for yourselves. You tend to follow the opinions of entertainers rather than think through real issues for yourselves."
Entertainers like Limbaugh or O'Reily?

"With no-bama in the White House, your radical agenda is exposed and is being rejected by the American people. Read the polls! (if you can read, that is)"
Radical agenda? Who are the ones carrying guns to peacefull townhall meetings? I'm sure it ian't the Dems, if anyone is radical it are the Republicans. The fact that Dems don't agree with your paranoid hillbilly worldview doesn't make them radical, it shows that they are probably wiser than you are...

re: "Death panel" architect a pro-life Republican from Georgia?

Ordinarily when I see comments begin to veer off to the 'right' I just pass them on by rather than subject myself to more 'liberal/elitist/dem' bashing. Because I fear the conservative lackey's for big business ie big insurance may actually succeed in killing health care yet again, I actually read this entire piece. I take solace in the fact that pro health care reformers at least in this comments section vastly outnumber the fear mongering detractors of the republican party's right wing. This in spite of the conspiratorial onslaught by the media which by the way doesn't end with Limbaugh,Beck,O'Reilly, et al. Have you noticed even CNN refuses to slap down Lou Dobbs and his insane 'birther' agenda. You should note that any and all efforts to demean President Obama by any means available have in mind the same goal republicans have espoused for decades, an end to any form of liberalism for the people. What could be more liberal and 'for the people' than health care. I keep hearing negative comparisons regarding Canada, Britain,and France and how we are on the slippery slope to Socialism. From where I stand a good dose of Socialism is what this country needs. Why it should follow that Socialized medicine would usher in a dictatorship and an end to capitalism is beyond reason. Europe is still operating with a capitalist system. I can only be thankful I have to remain reasonably healthy for only two more years and then will qualify for Medicare. Thank goodness for a government program.

re: "Death panel" architect a pro-life Republican from Georgia?

Well said Sandra.

re: "Death panel" architect a pro-life Republican from Georgia?

Dear anonymous. What do you call the process that blue cross/blue shield or any other insurance company engages in where it evaluates whether or not to fund a procedure their insured customers apply for? They call it "underwriting" - but you can just as well use the term "rationing".

I have lived in Europe for 20 years and I can tell you that there is no "rationing" in a national health care system. It is a system based on citizens' access to a basic human right - I think most pro-lifers tend to believe that being alive is a basic human right, no? - Those who can afford to and want a higher level of coverage just buy it, but at least EVERYONE has access to a very good level of basic health coverage. This simple fact actually save loads of money because it leads to a healthier population with less of the excessive costs of emergency care.

Of course if the US were serious about keeping down the costs of health care then doing something about gun violence would probably make an enormous impact.

re: "Death panel" architect a pro-life Republican from Georgia?

Critical thinking? Oooookaaaay. Whatever you say.

Next time I need me sum of that thar astute politicul analisis I'll jes give you a yell.

In the meantime I'll enjoy watching the demographics continue to change and you guys become more and more irrelevant.

Later dinosaur.

re: "Death panel" architect a pro-life Republican from Georgia?

Jim-laughable ignorance on your part -and illiterate- Wealthier is correct, more wealthy is typical of an uneducated buffoon. Also please quote or footnote your source of your assertions. What study has released these statistics or are these the self-composed "facts" typically disseminated by republicans to substantiate their "superiority"?
My Grandfather was Barry Goldwater's Campaign Finance Chairman, and I was a Republican until the Swift Boat Ads confirmed my worst fears, that the GOP was no different than the NAZIs, using propaganda based on falsehoods to justify their RACIST hatred and lust for power. I am the fifth generation of United States Naval Officers, and have never witnessed such a false, malicious attack on the Honor of the Purple Heart.
In todays political environment, RACISTS are REPUBLICAN and fear President Obama solely because of the color of his skin. Republicans again have abandoned patriotism by choosing to insult the Office of the President, as you have done with your racist name calling "Nobama" and I'm pretty sure you are stupid enough to question the authenticity of our President's birthright.
Your hatred is typical of your Christianity? I bet you have a pocket full of stones.

re: "Death panel" architect a pro-life Republican from Georgia?

You know Kate, I think that in the context Jim's use of "more wealthy" is correct.

re: "Death panel" architect a pro-life Republican from Georgia?

Please cite your source, because this might possibly describe GOP Congressmen but doesn't seem to square with remaining GOP voters. Just the fact that they misspell our President's name nobama and cannot understand the basic workings of for-profit health care enough to comprehend why we need reform seems to contradict your statement.

re: "Death panel" architect a pro-life Republican from Georgia?

The scare tactics and lies have only made the rednecks more vocal, I am 65, born and raised in TN and can identify with the poster who says race is the bottom line with these rabble rousers at the town halls..I have had an Obama '08 sticker on my car for over a year and have had several of these inbreds in TN make very rude comments to my face, (usually at the local Walmart!!)

re: "Death panel" architect a pro-life Republican from Georgia?

Check it out:

http://www.whitehouse.gov/realitycheck/

Pass it around

re: "Death panel" architect a pro-life Republican from Georgia?

// At the heart of the conservative movement is greed and selfishness. //

And the solution is to force them to pay for your health care.

re: "Death panel" architect a pro-life Republican from Georgia?

Republicans are the most uneducated, moronic imbeciles in the country. They are only 20% of the population and they all live in states where there are more bears than goofy rednecks. They're all like Elmer Fudd walking around behind the sheds they live in with their guns looking for squirrels to eat. Can't read obviously or they'd realize the bill they are all screeching about will cover their asses for the rest of their lives. Morons!

re: "Death panel" architect a pro-life Republican from Georgia?

I totally agree with everything that you said!

re: "Death panel" architect a pro-life Republican from Georgia?

Cite your source for this statistical nonsense. It (the source) doesn't exist.

re: "Death panel" architect a pro-life Republican from Georgia?

Here's some data for afgail, red, and the rest of you do-nothings:
Sorry I didn't provide this earlier, but I have other things (like a job) that require my attention. Just in case you don't have the attention span to read to the end, I'll just tell you that this pretty much supports what I've said before.

By the way, I never made any comment about the healthcare debate, but yet some of you have already 'assigned' me my opinions. (talk about prejudice). I was only responding to the original ignorant comment from afgail (or is is ag-FAIL?) about republicans. Where's ag-FAIL's data? Where's your data?

http://books.google.com/books?id=wGtJ66o3EyIC&pg=PA84&lpg=PA84&dq=education+level+of+democrats+and+republicans&source=bl&ots=nHH5Eez8CP&sig=HDmA2I7MXkaz1WT8gdyG9doVA-A&hl=en&ei=tNeASryEMcWltgeJv7nOCg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=10#v=onepage&q=&f=false

re: "Death panel" architect a pro-life Republican from Georgia?

"...and don't feel obligated to pay taxes like everyone else."

You mean like Daschle and our Treasury Secretary, No-Tax-Tim?

Putting a little truth on this site is really entertaining. You guys just spin out of control like a disturbed bee-hive. (apologies to the bees...)

re: "Death panel" architect a pro-life Republican from Georgia?

"If that's true, tell me why Republicans as a group are:
* More educated
* More wealthy
* Have higher IQ's
* Happier
* more productive"

Funniest top 5 I've ever read...

* Paying your way into Harvard to get C's doesn't mean you're more educated.

* Seeing as how there's a small group of "wealthy elites", I'd say boasting about wealth is a pretty moot subject (especially seeing as how you probably don't even fall in this category, but good job trying to talk yourself up).

* Don't even know how to respond to a fictitious factoid of higher IQ's...not logical or realistic in any sense.

* Happier in the what sense? I guess if you call trying to restrict everyone's freedom, moronic policies, religious wars, and pushing moral beliefs on the populace "happy" then you would be correct.

* What is productive about trying to keep the country reliant on oil and older technology while not wanting to invest in anything that could open up new industries?

re: "Death panel" architect a pro-life Republican from Georgia?

"iknowmorethanyou"

Don't you know that Bernie Madoff is a DEMOCRAT?

I guess you DONT 'knowmorethanme"

re: "Death panel" architect a pro-life Republican from Georgia?

The book "Democrats and Republicans--Rhetoric and Reality" by Joseph Fried. You can find it on Google Books.
I posted the URL but, as of yet, this site has not chosen to post the message.

Where's YOUR data?

re: "Death panel" architect a pro-life Republican from Georgia?

Someone else posted:

"If that's true, tell me why Republicans as a group are:
* More educated
* More wealthy
* Have higher IQ's
* Happier
* more productive"

Well Sir because evidently you, as does Republican strategists in general tend so to often to do, fluff the numbers and use expedient modeling techniques in order to obfuscate even the most rudimentary statistical concepts, for instance in terms of "More Wealthy" are speaking of the average or the mean, find the middle find the truth, spouting the average is trickery. "Happier" a ridiculous notion, no comment on that one, more "productive" is a relative analysis, "sounds good but means nothing" whats the measure, a product's valuation, the level of protestant work ethics or what? as for More "educated" this also is a complete myth, more college educated wealthy people as well as non-educated people in general voted for Obama this year, McCain led only in lower middle class non-college educated rural white male voters only, as for the higher IQ B.S. turn to Fox watch for five minutes, and ask yourself what is 1 new thing that you learned which you didn't already agree with 6 minutes ago, that's not intelligent analysis it's an echo chamber. And what I think you mean to say is "Conservatives" not "Republicans" I as well as many Democrats have some conservative values, the GOP does not own values, the issue I have with the party is how they would have us as a society to be informed by our values, I'm one to believe that it is the example of our lifes which best demonstrate our values not the voraciouness of our rhetoric, the rhetoric makes you and your party sound like vacuum cleaner salesmen, especially when they loudly profess the granduer of values they do not live (See. Ginrich, Limbaugh, Stanford, Ensign, Hasterd, McCain, Grahm, etc) also, for example when the sacredness of life is only applied to the subjects deemed politically expedient to a power agenda, and not towards God given life in general, you prove that your amazing vacuum cleaner's value is actually zilch and it's greatness is no more than a shinny gimmick, a good product sells itself, thats why Sen. Obama won this election and the GOP is left only with the friends they have gained over the years through the southern strategy, and the plutocratic classism of "trickle down on the little ungodly poor people economics" how can an American argue with a stright face in support of the notion that when citizens look to their elected Gov't for assistance or consideration they are lazy bums with their hands out, but when corporate lobbyists like Dick Armey of FreedomWorks or even corporate Criminals like Rick "Medi-Madoff" Scott of Conservatives for Patient Rights strong arm Gov't in the name off Coporate profit margins under the guise of "protecting freedom" it's business as usual. Thanks but no thanks I'll use a broom the old fashion way, keep your vacuum cleaners, you'll need them all to the clean the B.S. out of your birthbagging bobble heads, when you finally realize that technology will never allow the large scale manipulation of the last 25 years, wake up, stand up, speak up people, and get these old winkled corporate hands out of your pockets, they all have doctorate in fleecing the middle class, and defunding the Gov't so they can fleece you indefinately, fear plutocracy the love child of unregulated capitalism, and the stranger that's been casing your futures for all of American history, everything is about class forget race and socialism it's a distraction, Americans will never stand for socialism, and a racist mind cannot be changed externally, but plutocracy in the wet dream of the coporate elite and the GOP.

re: "Death panel" architect a pro-life Republican from Georgia?

Give us your statistics, bucko. The Republicans I know are anything but bright and obviously, by their rude outbursts in the town halls, are anything but happy. And here is the real pickle. . .all of the ones that I know, which is quite a few, are ALL recieving some government check of some kind, either federal or state and get their health care through government insurance pools. One I know is even recieving her government check illegally, yet this wealthy woman bitches about the taxes she pays. From my personal experience, the Republicans are the party of ignorance and hypocricy.

re: "Death panel" architect a pro-life Republican from Georgia?

Jim you hit the nail square on the head. It appears the demo's want the gov. to run every faze of our lives. I am positive the gov. cannot efficiently run anything.

re: "Death panel" architect a pro-life Republican from Georgia?

Time for a perspective adjustment. There has been a preponderence of prejudice toward "Southerners". However, it is wrong to paint entire demographic groups with the same brush. I am part of the southern migration. I grew up in the rust belt and moved south for opportunity. The south has many compassionate, empathetic and intelligent people. In fact, my new home, North Carolina eleted a democratic senator and governor. Our electoral votes went to President Obama. Ou colleges are consistently highly regarded and many of our children are progressives. The Republican southern strategy has been a dark legacy for our political culture. Many of the most zealot right wingers are the economically disaffected, regardless of race, ethnicity or geography. I know just as many red necks in Pennsylvania and Michigan as North Carolina. BTW, I know that I can not spell. So save your comments. Healthcare reform now! With a public option! Single payer is OK by me.

Here is another perspective that I have not seen discussed. I am correct that the same people who trusted the government to read our email, tap our phones, look at our bank record and monitor what we take out of the library, do not trust the government to run healthcare? This dumb southerner read "1984" in high school. Also, when it comes to guns and death panels (ref: Gingrich; not from GA, originally from PA), the slippery slope argument is valid, but not when it comes to the Patriot Act? Say What? (ref: SRV)

re: "Death panel" architect a pro-life Republican from Georgia?

well, it looks like Jim is the troll assigned to Facing South.

Don't feed the trolls. Like squirles, feeding trolls, only encourages them return again and again.

re: "Death panel" architect a pro-life Republican from Georgia?

So, "Republicans as a group are:
* More educated
* More wealthy
* Have higher IQ's
* Happier
* more productive"?

Could it be you are merely misinterpreting the facts?

EDUCATION- Perhaps Republicans need more education than Democrats just to function in society, because they are born clueless? I have known many college-educated morons. Most of them are Conservatives.
Anything genuinely new frightens them. Novelty (like a black president) terrifies these unimaginative and closed-minded types. They need an advanced degree just to open their caviar.
And in the 2007 election, Obama voters were overwhelmingly more educated, compared to McCain voters. So your argument is both out-of-date AND wrongly interpreted.

WEALTH- Could it be that the rich Republicans inherited that wealth from their rich parents, who bought the laws that perpetuate their advantage? And maybe poor Republicans have been trained, like Pavlov's dogs, to vote kornservetive at the sound of hate speech and selfishness.

I.Q.- I.Q. tests, being written by well-off white people are notoriously biased in favor of well-off white people. What a surprise. Add to this the fact that Republicans destroyed public schools in order to give their private-schooled brats an advantage and there is your I.Q. claim in the dumpster.

HAPPINESS- Hitler was a jolly fellow. So was Charly Manson. The sincere belief in your own demented delusions will result in a sense of self-righteous confidence that others see as happiness. You know, like Christianity.
But is that happiness based here in reality-land, or the Thousand Year Reich? The Republican's happiness is generated in large part by his/her ability to ignore humans suffering. This autistic, 'I got mine, screw off' mentality is most common among another group: Psychotic and sociopathic serial killers. You know. People like Adolf and Charly.
Democrats can actually FEEL OTHER PEOPLE'S PAIN. I know it's hard to believe, but that's why Republicans were so outraged when Obama said he wanted a Supreme Court Justice with "empathy."

PRODUCTION- Productivity, ah, the Capitalist's measure of a human being's value. What do those Republicans produce, besides clear-cut forests, polluted rivers, stock trades, weapons, oil and higher prices? These things do nothing for the economy and actually piss away our natural resources and intelligence on projects that destroy life and make the world a worse place to live.

You can't help it Jim. You just aren't cut out to have original ideas or value human life. But that's why Republicans are screaming about "Death Panels" and birth certificates when all they really care about is keeping their ill-gotten gains.

Because the accurate presenting of facts is a positive human value. Something Republicans only seem to care about when the facts agree with their twisted, dehumanizing agenda.

re: "Death panel" architect a pro-life Republican from Georgia?

Thanks, Jim for acknowledging the lies that are being spread by Republicans. I am so astonished that scare tactics, mass hysteria and mistruths are being spread, and also that they are accepted as fact by so many people. It speaks to absolute desire to have Obama defeated sparing no tactics, just to make sure that the Republicans do not have to acknowledge any good that might result under Obama's presidency. The scare tactics and hatred being initiated are not for the intention of the good of the citizenship, but rather for causing failure for the Democrats.
Web sites like this are to be commended for providing FACTS about the issues and presenting TRUTH. I am hearing absolute LIES in defamation of Obama being spread by members of my Sunday School at church. And one Sunday School adult even talked about his 6 year old granddaughter staing those lies - engraining young with the Republican propoganda. I was told that Obama wanted to be a dictator with absolute power and that Speaker Nancy Pallosi was as similar to Hitler as a person could be. These "Christians" are saying that I am brainwashed. In actuality, they are the ones brainwashed.

re: "Death panel" architect a pro-life Republican from Georgia?

If the fictitious "Death Panels" are to euthenase the mentally deficient, Palin and Foxx have every right to be worried. They would have to be No 1 and 2.

re: "Death panel" architect a pro-life Republican from Georgia?

Stan,
If members of the are so intelligent, how did we get a republican president who barely made out of college? If you are upstanding and happy why is there a need to spread lie, after after lie. You complain about the state of affairs and any proposed plan to rectify the situation, yet you have nothing to correct the situation. Don't complain about the problem or situation unless you have a solution. We had eight years of ignorance, arrogance and lack of concern for the american people. He handled his own issues and lied domestic and international affairs. This is not about party, it's about people who have expressed needs. Some of them unfortunately don't have enough sense to pour #*%& out of a boot with instructions written for them. So all the negatives that are being GOP driven they will follow like sheep. Get over the racism, and look at reality and the truth.

re: "Death panel" architect a pro-life Republican from Georgia?

Dee,
You need only go to any hospital in anywhere USA to realize the number of people who are left on gurneys, bleeding in the waiting area, babies with fevers surpassing 103 degrees and those who die needlessly because they have no health care. Reasons are many and I'm not talking about those who are here illegaly. That's another issue within itself. My neighbors just lost their business because of the high cost of medical and pharmaceutical care. The husband had been trying for years to ge
help from the VA as a veteran of the Viet Nam war, turned down. His wife has several issues lymes disease, Crohn's disese. They were paying over $500 a month for prescriptions alone (out of pocket, doctors visits whatever the rate was for the treatment (credit cards), no insurance would insure them - - pre-existing issues. He served this country when the rich (sons) excuse me the wealthy sons escaped to Canada and every place they could, joined reserve units(our former president), and lastly lied about attending drills. But they aren't concerned about not being insured. The line still divides this country and alwlays will as long as we have weak mind people who are being lead by the devious, the trecherous, the racist and the greedy. Big I, little U. Honor, ethics and integrity has dissipated in this country to agreat extent. We talk about third world countries who brainwash or kill those who are weaker or put up resistance. In this country, brainwashing the uneducated, slander of the opposition who bring about fresh and innovative change, initiation of ploys to encourage cultural genocides. "The Land of the Free and the HOME of Brave". Is this the place where the American Dream is for every citizen? The opportunity for good and affordable healthcare is also a part of the American Dream for every citizen. If you don't want it, you don't have to take it. Just shut up and stop lying.

re: "Death panel" architect a pro-life Republican from Georgia?

Man. You guys are just plain nuts! It appears you really believe this stuff you're saying.

I'm tired of this boring site. I guess I'll leave you drones alone here to drink your own bathwater and convince each other how right you are.

re: "Death panel" architect a pro-life Republican from Georgia?

Jim,

You are very right, all Republicans are not dumb or stupid. The Republicans with all the money, would like to keep ALL the other people without money. This includes their own party members. The goal of Big Money Republicans is to keep the masses uneducated, so they can continue to make Big Money. This is where the comment of ignorance comes into play. The limited educated members of the Republican party are being misled to vote against their own interest. That my friend is very ignorant, regardless of what party you are a member of

re: "Death panel" architect a pro-life Republican from Georgia?

The Religious Right Repubs are unethical as well as undereducated. Glenn Beck, Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity, just to name a few top ultra right Repubs who brandish outlandish nonsense, have no higher education than a high school diploma. They trade on hate and fear to appeal to those who are just as undereducated or willfully ignorant.

re: "Death panel" architect a pro-life Republican from Georgia?

John it has nothing to do with who won the Civil War it has to do with politics in general. And they are all corrupt from sea to shinning sea.

re: "Death panel" architect a pro-life Republican from Georgia?

Amen Brother.
The only difference between the conservative and liberal, Republicans and Democrats, is how they want to run your life. They both want to tell you what to do, it's just different things they want you to do.

As far as deficits go, the largest ones were put in place by Republican presidents(outside of wartime) Reagan and the Bushes, who wanted to spend, spend , spend but not have to pay for it. And Congress let them get away with it. Borrow and spend Conservatives vice tax and spend Liberals. Which is more ethical? The ones who want to make you pay up front for what you get. Why do the Conservative/Republicans want to borrow and spend you may ask? Because their friends and families make A LOT OF MONEY lending to the government, and then supplying the services/products, such as from the military industrial complex, that politicians want. The same military industrial complex that President Eisenhour warned us about at the end of his term.

As far as I am concerned, the whole bunch are crooked.

re: "Death panel" architect a pro-life Republican from Georgia?

Jim...here's my data that shows empirically that regions that vote Democratic tend to be wealthier

http://modeledbehavior.com/2009/08/03/democratic-states-are-wealthier/

Your book was published in 2008, my data was posted last week...but anyways I appreciate this debate. I think reasonable, explorative debate is what this country should be about. I myself am a Democrat but I can say I wouldn't mind hearing what you have to say-if you listen to what I say without flying off the handle

re: "Death panel" architect a pro-life Republican from Georgia?

It is fun to read the comments... Actually I am going to retire shortly and as we know the Medicare system is bankrupt. Increasing the insured pool makes it viable and for me low cost health care.
I don't approve of it just like I did not approve of Cash for Clunkers but I took it. Let some other dumb bastard pay for it as I laugh all the way to the bank

re: "Death panel" architect a pro-life Republican from Georgia?

Jim, you are a fool! There is nothing that I can say that others have not already stated. Apparently you have spent more time watching Fox news and listening to Rush Limbaugh's misinformation than delving into the reality. From your text, you come off as a bigot and an idiot. Because you wrote it, does not mean that it is truth.
For one minute, let me assume that you know what you are talking about before I break out in shuddering laughter at the vacuous statements that you so boldly made. Ok, minute is up... you fool!
I know a great many people, some republicans (bless their hearts), some democrats and some liberals. Out of all of them, if I were to rate them, the republicans are not more intelligent than the others. In fact, given a complex issue, I would have to say that the democrats and liberals are much more adept at understanding the complexities of the arguement.
I would like to point out that this is not fact, but my own observation. I am sure that there are folks out there that may disagree and that is their right, but you are a fool and have no rights due to your stupidity. (note that I have just sunk to Jim's level of idiocy and should at once be admonished and sent to one of the republican's famous "death panels" for judgement)
Jim, of course you have rights. You are an American... aren't you? You have the right to fredom of speech, you have the right to bear arms, you have the right to a jury by your peers, but Jim, the one that you should have used was the Fifth amendment that gave you the right not to self-incriminate yourself. Now we all know you are stupid. There is a right that I wish were included in our Bill of Rights and that is: No man should foment lies to increase one's standing, wealth or power.
Jim, the fomentation of lies that YOUR republican party is spreading because they are losing their grip on power is a problem. They are losing their grip over the educated republicans(don't fool yourself, republicans are NOT more educated than democrats) because they are beginning to see right through them like the democrats and liberals have for years.
Fish in a barrel. What were you thinking? You have allowed everybody to pick your low-hanging-fruit because your false statements were too insipid and based entirely in a fantasy world to resist.
If everyone were like you Jim, we would all drive pick-up trucks with a gun rack in the back window, have white robes with pointed hoods in the back seat, kerosene in the back to burn books (or crosses) with and hate in our souls. You are stuck in a world that is one dimensional and sad. You should look at being the solution to the problem, not the cause of it. Your negativity is pathetic and should have been culled by now.

re: "Death panel" architect a pro-life Republican from Georgia?

Jim... I am amazed that you are buying into the racist and hate-infested rhetoric of the GOP and their cronies.

Democrats actually have decency and thoughtfully debate issues while the Republicans are calling on all Republicans to overcome the town-halls with loud boisterous hate inciting disruptions (and this is a well televised Republican strategy)!

You are of that racist hate-inciting extremist movement that is on the verge of being a domestic terrorist. And, because of you people, there is going to be another Oklahoma City domestic terrorist attack, brought on by crazies like you that are listening to the likes of dirtbags like Limballs, Beck and Hannity, who, every morning wake up and look in the mirror and despise what they see so much, that they have to project the hatred they have for themselves onto others and as a result incite hatred, racism and division, when everyone in this country, Republican and Democrat alike, should be pulling together to help one another in the most difficult times this country has seen since the Great Depression. And you, Jim, are one of those people too.

When you can be considerate and have a thoughtful and productive debate on the issues, then and only then, should you be allowed to discuss health-care reform and another other issue of massive importance that needs to be fixed because of the GOP, i.e - Bush/Cheney, ran this country into the ground!

And you want to call the Democrats stupid and not being able to read, when all you can do is spew hatred and criticism on an issue you apparently know nothing about and are just repeating the rhetorical talking points you hear on the airwaves. You cannot even form one sentence of constructive thoughtful debate that can be taken seriously on any issue!

Why don't you log off, go clean your gun, make your effigy of a lynching and listen to FOX News a bit more, so that you are ready to participate in your local town hall when the time comes. And that way, you'll be right in line with your so called arms-bearing, bible-thumping, redneck, so-called "patriots" that are "concerned about the future of America and how to make it better.

re: "Death panel" architect a pro-life Republican from Georgia?

http://isakson.senate.gov/press/2009/081109healthcare.html
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
Tuesday, August 11, 2009

Isakson Denounces White House Comments Connecting Him
To Terribly Flawed House Health Care Bill
‘This Is What Happens When the President and Members of Congress Don’t Read the Bills’

WASHINGTON – U.S. Senator Johnny Isakson, R-Ga., today denounced comments made by President Obama and his spokesman regarding Isakson’s alleged connection to language contained in the House health care bill on “end-of-life counseling.”

Isakson vehemently opposes the House and Senate health care bills and he played no role in drafting language added to the House bill by House Democrats calling for the government to incentivize doctors by offering them money to conduct “end-of-life counseling” with Medicare patients every five years. Isakson also strongly opposed the House bill language calling for doctors to follow a government-mandated list of topics to discuss with patients during the counseling sessions.

By contrast, Isakson took a very different approach in July during the Senate HELP Committee hearings on the Senate version of the health care bill. Isakson’s amendment to the Senate bill says that anyone who participates in the long-term care benefit provided in the bill – if they so choose – may use that benefit to obtain assistance in formulating their own living will and durable power of attorney.

Isakson’s amendment, which was accepted unanimously by all Republicans and Democrats on the Senate HELP Committee, empowers the individual to make their own choices on these critical issues, rather than the government incentivizing doctors to conduct counseling on government-mandated topics. Isakson ultimately voted against the Senate health care bill.

“This is what happens when the President and members of Congress don’t read the bills. The White House and others are merely attempting to deflect attention from the intense negativity caused by their unpopular policies. I never consulted with the White House in this process and had no role whatsoever in the House Democrats’ bill. I categorically oppose the House bill and find it incredulous that the White House and others would use my amendment as a scapegoat for their misguided policies,” Isakson said. “My Senate amendment simply puts health care choices back in the hands of the individual and allows them to consider if they so choose a living will or durable power of attorney. The House provision is merely another ill-advised attempt at more government mandates, more government intrusion, and more government involvement in what should be an individual choice.”

re: "Death panel" architect a pro-life Republican from Georgia?

Holly,

You are a poster-child for my claim that most Democrats lack critical thinking skills.

Now, think about it if you can. What's wrong with the data and analysis you cited? Hint: The analysis doesn't focus on individual correlation between political affiliation and the attributes I mentioned. It lumps everyone together into state averages. Unless each red or blue state always voted overwhelmingly (like 90% or more) one way or another, the true correlations are lost.

You poor dear. This must have made your brain hurt.

re: "Death panel" architect a pro-life Republican from Georgia?

Bret,

You're such an idiot... and a prejudiced one at that.

I don't own a pickup truck. Actually I drive a hybrid.

I don't really see myself as a Republican, since, as has been pointed out on this post, both parties screwed up royally, in my opinion. I naturally favor positions that limit the amount of power and authority we place in the hands of the government.
I would like to see a 3rd party come into prominence-- one that actually looks out for individual rights and doesn't try to build huge power bases.

I just happen to believe that the Democrat party is by far the most misleading and corrupt political organization of our time.

re: "Death panel" architect a pro-life Republican from Georgia?

Holly,

Actually I'd like to apologize to you for the insults I sent your way in my previous reply to you. Your response to my post was the only decent response I've received from a Democrat in this blog.

I stand by my analysis of the data you cited, but should not have insulted you as you seem to be one of the few here who are really trying to analyze things.

Peace

re: "Death panel" architect a pro-life Republican from Georgia?

FUD - Fear / Uncertainty / doubt is used to stop logical thinking. However, FUD works in mysterious ways. The health care reform process is only in the beginning of the FUD season. When the focus is on the public sector, the private sector pushes health care reform further by creating health clinics near you.
As these clinics take on more responsibility, the focus will be placed on these clinics doing more for health care than what the government can currently provide. FUD focus will shift to private clinics. The media will choose a FUD story line, does the government know what type of health care is being provided?FUD focus will shift back to public sector to do something about these clinics, thus passing Health Care Protections. Public won't realize "Clinic Protections" will modify health care measures. FUD fails to stop Health Care Reform, because the people sought out help from the Government. Government will form small organizations overseeing smaller organizations, which in the end will be the clinics that help make the public healther. FUD used to initially stop Health Care Reform passes it.

re: "Death panel" architect a pro-life Republican from Georgia?

I believe that many Americans are reacting to these terms, such as "death panels", without looking at the whole picture. Of course, that particular term is not in the proposed health care reform bill. However, if one takes into consideration the cost of this bill, as proposed, then eventually a committee will have to decide who gets care, who must be denied care, etc. just because finances will be drastically limited. Thus, the so-called "death panels" will be forced to be created. People that are being criticized may be the ones that have vision and of whom we should heed.

re: "Death panel" architect a pro-life Republican from Georgia?

Death panels already exist. In every Insurance Company, HMO etc. they have a group of people whose job it is to assess whether they will pay for your treatment or let you die. Now, they dont care if you have a productive future or not, just if you are gonna cost them more than what they get from you. I'd frankly prefer to take my chances with government bureaucrats.

re: "Death panel" architect a pro-life Republican from Georgia?

Yes, Canada's rate of cancer survival is a WHOPPING 2% lower than 'murika's. That's such an EXTREME difference, isn't it?

On the other hand, Canada doesn't have a million people every year declaring bankruptcy because they got sick.

re: "Death panel" architect a pro-life Republican from Georgia?

I think it was Christopher who mentioned John Kerry and the Swift Boat ads. Funny because everything that's happened over health care lately with Palin, Limbaugh, Newt and the rest reminded me about Kerry. They did the same thing to President Obama during the campaign but people were smart enough this time to see thru them. They will again. I thought our elected officials would work together this time to do what is best for the country. Guess I'm just a dreamer.

re: "Death panel" architect a pro-life Republican from Georgia?

First: polls, like statistics, can be manipulated to support just about any P.O.V. Second: saying things like, 'Republicans, as a group, are: 'Happier', 'Wealthier' 'Have higher IQs'~and this last one, Mr. Republican smarty-pants, you spelled with an apostrophe between the Q and the s~implying that the IQ itself owns something. Something like happiness is difficult to qualify in the first place and could be entirely coincidental to political party, as is wealth, level of education, etc. IF IT'S EVEN TRUE, these things could have to do with dozens of factors that don't have anything to do with political party. The fact is that there are plenty of smart Republicans (the personality disorder that causes most of them to crave simplistic, unsympathetic-to-the-human-condition answers to complex questions and inability to sympathize with anything that they haven't personally experienced notwithstanding), and plenty of stupid Democrats (despite the fact that for the most part they have closer to the right idea about how things ought to go in general). Making generalizations like this just makes you sound like an angry, ignorant moron. Admire the results the Republicans have produced regardless of their willingness to do so by any means necessary (and I mean ANY), if that's your thing. But have some integrity and admit that it is because they have continually lied and cheated to line their pockets in the name of higher ideals, like patriotism, and that their capacity for doing so is bottomless and without shame. If you really believe that they are so right, stand up and display just a smidgen of all those wonderful qualities you laid out as being so prevalent in the elephants and at such a deficit in the donkeys. There are worse things than being poor and not so bright~read the polls (if you can see them from atop your high horse.).

re: "Death panel" architect a pro-life Republican from Georgia?

Johnny Isakson was a moderate Republican who used to be pro choice. It's important to point out that in another state he probably would have been a different politician, but he chose to move in a more conservative direction and the people of Georgia rewarded him with more power. Just another example that you don't run on what you believe, but what gets you elected.

re: "Death panel" architect a pro-life Republican from Georgia?

I will not vote for the dem's again if they don't pass healthcare refor with a public option. I didnot vote for the republicans and don't care if they sign on or not and I will set out the 2010 & 2012 elections if President Oboma doesn't get tough to get Health care reform passed!!!!!

re: "Death panel" architect a pro-life Republican from Georgia?

Not true. http://www.eduinreview.com/blog/2008/09/are-democrats-more-educated-than-republicans/.

I just offer the above study for grins because, according to some current research, the more facts you present to refute Rep/Con arguments, the tighter they hold on to their misinformation.
Just like this article, for example, the more evidence you present that the whole Democratic death panel was really created by a Republican and has nothing to do with persuading people to end their life, the more they believe the opposite.

re: "Death panel" architect a pro-life Republican from Georgia?

But the question is - can you read? or understand? or apply logic when required? A fool and his money..........

I bet YOU, Jimmy, are not one of those who makes the big bucks. However, you're perfectly at home having the BIG money players swindle you to keep feeding the BIG MONEY machine. Pity, pity, pity.

It's no wonder this country has gone to hell pretty quickly over the last 8-9 years. The Republicans:

1. stole not 1, but 2 elections (lack of moral/ethics)
2. started a war or 2 or 3.....(you get the point)
3. sent all of the people of your mentality to play with guns and have YET to find the one person you're looking for (deception, deception, and more lies)
4. continuously lied to the whole country and are now being taken to task for it (but you probably think W and his cronies were being honorable, in keeping with those confederate republican ideals)
5. increased the defecit significantly and cried for help to continue the funds flowing to their cronies - even as W was leaving office (you know bailing out wall streeters)
6. got punked when DOJ Holder called whining Cheney's bluff

and the list could go on. Never mind how you see it....These are the facts as I know them. Your list seems kind of childish when you consider the traits you've listed for your party. Where do you fit on the list? Grow a mind and shut up !!!!!!